Exploring neuro-diversity and inclusivity in the workplace

Speaker 1

Welcome back to Zevo Talks. My name is Davina Rampassoon. I’m the Health and Wellbeing Director here at Zevo Health, and today Anya Ma is joining us. Anya is a diversity and inclusion consultant based in Ireland, and she specializes in emotional inclusion, mental health, and neurodiversity.

Speaker 1

Anya uses her experience in neuroscience to enhance her clientele’s learning experience across a range of topics. And today, we’re going to be discussing neurodiversity, inclusion, and diversity within the workplace.

Speaker 1

So thank you for joining us today, Anya.

Speaker 2

Pleasure is on my end, Veena. Thank you.

Speaker 1

So shall we jump straight into this and I guess it’d be great to hear how you first came to this work yourself.

Speaker 2

Yeah, happy to. So my career began way back in DCU once upon a time. I was one of the first cohort of the Bachelor in Science of Psychology there. And the great thing about that course is that you actually have an opportunity to intern as part of it.

Speaker 2

So I was really blessed in that I got a fantastic internship with a company called Actualize. And it’s all around behavioural neuropsychology and an intervention called Neurofeedback. So I was lucky enough to hold on to that position while I worked through my final year part-time.

Speaker 2

And once I finished college, then launched straight into working within the clinic. It’s all based around the principles of operant conditioning. And there’s a lot of research in particular around its use with ADHD and helping some of the symptoms there.

Speaker 2

But we had a whole host of clientele coming from lots of different reasons from clinical pieces right through to peak performance. So I got a real idea of how neuroscience and neuropsychology could be applied in a really, really practical way.

Speaker 2

And one thing was that I noticed how validating it was for people to discuss their mental health and different things going on in their brains with something very tangible around, you know, this part of your brain is working this bit or this fast or this slow, and we can help you to kind of train it to be optimised for you.

Speaker 2

I loved my work there, but I definitely ran a bit of a risk of being a bit institutionalised, considering I’ve gone from an intern and have been working there for a few years. So I took the jump to corporate and started working in HR in Facebook.

Speaker 2

So a very steep learning curve jumping from academia into the more corporate world. And I was riddled with imposter syndrome. It was a very, very steep learning curve. But again, I had a great team, loads of support and lots of opportunity to get involved.

Speaker 2

And one of the things that I got involved with was employee resource groups, and specifically the differently abled group, which looked at neurodiversity, mental health and physical health and ability.

Speaker 2

So it was right up my avenue in terms of the neurodiversity and mental health stuff. And then was obviously very keen to be an active ally within the space of physical health and ability as well. So I became co-lead there.

Speaker 2

And this was alongside working on my masters with King’s College in London, where I studied the psychology and neuroscience of mental health. So it was all kind of coming together in, you know, I never really had a plan.

Speaker 2

I never thought I would end up in the diversity and inclusion space. I thought I would kind of get my masters and move back towards academia, but I fell in love with employee resource groups and the whole realm of diversity, inclusion and belonging.

Speaker 2

So then things finally really aligned last year in a way that I didn’t expect them to. I’ve been speaking to my mentor who I met through my work with the employee resource groups, and was basically allowed or given the opportunity to take a shot at being a consultant.

Speaker 2

I’m blessed with the support that she’s given me, but she was able to offer me a retainer to see how I got on, see how I enjoyed the work. And a year on, here I am. So I’m delighted for that leg up and loving the work within consultancy and really bringing that knowledge from neuroscience and mental health and neurodiversity into the diversity and inclusion space.

Speaker 2

So I’m still on a very steep learning curve there as well, but it’s been fantastic. And I’m so, so grateful for how my, I wouldn’t say a career ladder, a career jungle gym and a lot of accidents and a lot of luck, but I kept going in the general direction that I was hoping to have an impact on the world with.

Speaker 2

So I’m very happy to be where I am now.

Speaker 1

That’s a great journey and one probably that a lot of people may identify with themselves. I’m really interested to hear a little bit more than about what you believe, I guess, what place does mental health or mental wellbeing have when we speak about inclusion?

Speaker 2

That’s a great question, Davina. For me, mental wellbeing is really the cornerstone of inclusion. So if I have a client that comes to me and they really, they don’t know where to start in terms of their inclusion journey, wellbeing is the first stop for me.

Speaker 2

Different people come with different needs, of course, but for me, it is mental wellbeing because quite simply, we cannot give from an empty cup. So there’s a whole piece around understanding ourselves and being able to look after ourselves in a very meaningful way.

Speaker 2

Working in this inclusion space as individuals in workplaces and in society, it requires a lot of self-compassion and these things aren’t difficult to learn about. There’s a lot of research around kind of people’s reactions to learning about things like oppression or discrimination and how we begin to feel a lot of shame, we begin to feel a lot of guilt, particularly if, like myself, you’re in a privileged position of being kind of white,

Speaker 2

middle-class, well-educated, there’s a whole piece around kind of a shame element there. So if you’re not in a place where you can look at yourself through a lens of a bit more self-compassion and be able to recognize that you might be triggered, there might be triggering moments for other people in other groups, and we certainly all get it wrong a lot along the way.

Speaker 2

So we have to be able to kind of separate ourselves from that. So mental wellbeing is a really core piece of that. So a popular topic I cover in various steps, depending on what my client’s needs are, is the neuroscience of being mentally healthy.

Speaker 2

And I work off this model of eat, sleep, work, repeat, and then also a piece around exercising the body and mind, so looking at the role of exercise and meditation. And it depends then in terms of where a client is at.

Speaker 2

So some people will already have a wellbeing strategy in place. So this session then can often be something a bit quicker, it’s a bit more fun, really focusing on the why. And that’s where the neuroscience comes into my entire brand, my tagline being wake up to why.

Speaker 2

Because when we understand that, we can be much more intrinsically motivated to say, I’m gonna go for my walk this evening, even if it’s only 10 minutes, because I understand that little piece is a lot more effective than not doing anything at all.

Speaker 2

And just understanding just a little bit of the neuroscience behind that can be really, really empowering for people. The main piece that I always highlight is that we do need to open the conversation around mental ill health as well, and around reducing stigma, so people feel they can talk, and really making a space where managers can create a place of psychological safety, where people can just reiterate the need,

Speaker 2

if there is a deeper need for an intervention, that that’s okay. And to validate that that’s completely fair, that it’s okay to look for professional help when it goes much further than, you know, I’m eating right, I’m sleeping right, like maybe we’re not even in a position to look at those pieces.

Speaker 2

So we continue these conversations as much as we can. I tend to begin with my own story around mental health and placing that as my cornerstone. And when you start to see people being a bit vulnerable and hearing that validation coming from someone else, like, oh, other people have felt this way as well, it’s just always chipping away at that stigma.

Speaker 2

And then once we have that solid cornerstone in place of mental wellbeing, then I tend to recommend my clients to move on to the next stage of looking around neuro inclusion and what it looks like with neurodiversity, personality, and recognizing some more of those human bits that can make us similar in different ways that we might not have considered.

Speaker 2

So for me, mental wellbeing is right up front and it is such a key piece to the foundation of the inclusion journey.

Speaker 3

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Speaker 3

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Speaker 3

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Speaker 1

What happens mentally when people are excluded? What effect does that have on an individual, whether it’s in the workplace or it’s in, you know, the other groups that they’re a part of?

Speaker 2

There’s fantastic research in this space around the effects of exclusion. And one research study that springs to mind, it looked at just being excluded over the course of a lunch time. So somebody just not having the space to sit down at the table or being ostracized out.

Speaker 2

And what we see is that it affects problem solving, it affects creativity, it affects collaboration behaviors. It even goes as far as affecting how somebody will engage with the group when there is a decision being made.

Speaker 2

That if they’re made to feel excluded, even if they feel whatever the idea on the table is, if it’s a viable idea, if they’re already feeling excluded, they are more likely to continue that nearly self ostracization of stepping back from it and disagreeing with what’s on the table.

Speaker 2

So what’s happening there is that our brain is spending a lot of energy in places that we don’t need it to. We are, you know, we’re more reptilian than we give ourselves credit for when we think about kind of evolutionary psychology and that we’re primal beings who live in tribes.

Speaker 2

And when we’re excluded from that tribe, it is a real, it’s a real trigger for us to feel vulnerable. And when that emotional piece of our brain right down in the middle that developed long before any of this lovely bit on the top that allows us to have this very meaningful conversation, once that’s triggered, if we’re not in a position to kind of rein that back in, it’s going to take over nearly.

Speaker 2

And it can affect our behaviors in ways that we don’t even recognize, such as having issues with problem-solving collaboration and so on that we’ve seen in the research. So there’s an awful lot there around those detrimental effects to being excluded even just for a lunchtime, let alone if you’re experiencing consistent microaggressions and consistent exclusion across a longer period of time that all of those pieces add up into a sum of a much greater impact of being consistently excluded.

Speaker 1

It’s quite significant, the impact that it has on it, and for people who are experiencing maybe elements of that, and especially maybe in the hybrid working world, what advice and guidance might you give?

Speaker 2

I think it’s a tough one and I think it’s going to be tougher as well and it’s something we need to be very conscious of as we move into this phase of the, you know, designing what our new normal looks like and some people working in a hybrid fashion.

Speaker 2

You know, you’re looking at particularly parents seem to be quite interested working in that hybrid fashion, younger people coming into the workforce look forward to that more office interaction. And the thing is, is that we are losing those little moments, those little pieces of Hey, how are you with a coffee machine, and on a neurological level that means we’re missing little hits of dopamine all the time,

Speaker 2

those little happy hormones of human interaction, when you get the chance to just have a quick chat with somebody. It also means that we might have the opportunity to debrief. So if you’ve had a particularly heated discussion during a group conversation or a meeting.

Speaker 2

It’s often that walking out of the meeting room and the little jokes or the little pieces that diffuse it again and allows your body to kind of reduce that stress cycle and give the space to to really get back to that homeostasis of just being relaxed and calm.

Speaker 2

So we’re not getting that at the moment. It’s all, you know, if I have two minutes before my meeting, it means I can grab a coffee, and then I’ll sit down at 11 and from 11 to half 11 will just talk about the project at hand.

Speaker 2

So in terms of tips, I think it’s about being really, really intentional about how we include. So within my consultancy work, I’ve done a lot of focus groups and report writing, when clients will come and say you know we have this well being and belonging survey and people aren’t feeling it and then we don’t really know what to do with this information.

Speaker 2

And what has come through so consistently is something just as simple as having an open tea room on zoom. So we say you know we’re going to open the tea room from 11 to half 11 from one to four, whatever the case may be, and people can just come in, no work to be talked about, but just to be able to have a few little chats and just be able to build up that that human element, particularly for people who have had to onboard during this time of which there are so many of just giving a little bit of space to allow people to have those human interactions is something very easy to do that we don’t necessarily recognize the value in.

Speaker 2

Now there’s a step further than that as well is that when we can see people are feeling actively excluded again much more difficult over remote working, but if somebody consistently has their camera off now we all have zoom fatigue sometimes but if they’re consistently have their camera off consistently aren’t contributing to meetings, reach out, you don’t have to be a leader, you don’t have to be a manager,

Speaker 2

we can all lead in this space inclusion is just about how is my behavior affecting you, how is your behavior affecting me in this one to one interaction as humans. So is it the case that you could just message somebody and say, Hey, do you want to have a quick cup of tea.

Speaker 2

I’m just checking in our often it’s a it’s a great way to kind of break the ice and start off by saying things like, I’m feeling really excluded at the moment, I’m feeling like I, you know, and you be a little bit vulnerable to start with, if you’re in the position to do so.

Speaker 2

And then the flip side of that again is if you’re the person feeling really excluded that can be so so tough, and you can often be in a position where yeah all your mental energy is drained from this feeling of exclusion.

Speaker 2

So what can you do. And there’s no quick answer to that, because it’s going to be different for different people you’re going to be at different stages in terms of your well being your career, your connections, but try to find an ally.

Speaker 2

It’s it’s the best thing I ever did in Facebook in terms of when I was feeling that imposter syndrome I spoke about was just getting to a place where I felt comfortable admitting it and saying it to someone else, someone who has now subsequently become a very very good friend as a result.

Speaker 2

But I was only there a couple of weeks and again, it was easier because we were in person, but people are by nature, we are kind and we do look out for one another. So if you can be a little bit vulnerable and just say, Hey, could you have a cup of tea with me, or are you a little bit free and just make that conscious effort.

Speaker 2

It’s all those little interactions that’s what’s going to shift the dial and that’s what’s going to make the biggest difference.

Speaker 1

little things that really mean a lot to people. Yeah, and in that sense, help them feel that their work, their purpose is noticed in their role. It’s giving them all those little boosts. So leading on from that and that point of inclusion, I think it’d be great now to look at neurodiversity and maybe explaining to our listeners, you know, what is neurodiversity and how can we support neurodivergence employees.

Speaker 2

Great question, Davina. So colloquially, when people think about neurodiversity, the first thing that comes to head is someone who is autistic. And that’s fair, that’s understandable. Maybe they think about ADHD or dyslexia or dysbraxia, and they will be kind of the most common four we think about when we think about the word neurodiversity.

Speaker 2

But if we actually break that word up, neurodiversity, neuro being to do with the brain and diversity, the state of being different, and that’s all it is. So the person who actually coined the term neurodiversity never meant it to describe a specific group of people, more so to describe the fact that as humans, we all have different brains.

Speaker 2

And then to be neuroinclusive and to recognize neuroinclusion in the workplace, it’s to recognize that our workplaces, we are skewed to collaborate and problem solve in a specific way. Often in a way that suits extroversion people, people who draw energy from others, who are verbal problem solvers, who like brainstorming and throwing ideas up on the board.

Speaker 2

And that can be great and it can get somewhere, but it doesn’t suit everyone. And some people are easier and better able to kind of shift into that space that the workplace typically can cater for. But it is draining on our energy again to operate outside our default.

Speaker 2

So being neuroinclusive is understanding that we have different personalities, we have different problem solving tendencies, and we process information differently. So if we can be a bit more flexible about how we understand that with one another, then it’s going to be a much more neuroinclusive environment.

Speaker 2

Now, of course, as you mentioned, there is neurodivergence as well. And the terminology that I actually use is talking about neuro-distinct identities. Because if we think about the word neurodivergence, it’s like, what are we diverting from?

Speaker 2

If we’re all different anyway, how does that work? So that’s the terminology that I use in the work that I do within neurodiversity. And yes, 100%, there are people with neuro-distinct identities. And there may be pieces of additional support needed.

Speaker 2

And there’s a whole piece around the stigma that people face if they’re on the autistic spectrum or people with attention difficulties and so on. But that’s nearly level two of understanding neurodiversity in its entirety.

Speaker 2

So the philosophy with the group that I have a partnership with, Optimize, it’s based on the philosophy of, you start with universal design, trying to be neuroinclusive to everyone. And then the second level is where you look at individualized support.

Speaker 2

And that is essentially the full piece of neuroinclusion. And it was great to see a recent review by the British Medical Journal. It only came out in September, 2020, supported just that. Now, naturally we weren’t too surprised because we are research-based, but it was nice to see that succinctly said.

Speaker 2

So no two people will be exactly the same. When we think about supporting neurodistinct individuals in the workplace, nobody is going to be the same as their neighbor when it comes to the support needed to perform optimally in work.

Speaker 2

Because that’s all it’s about. It’s really about giving people the tools to perform at their best while recognizing that we have some biases, we have some stigmas that we need to address. And that’s the kind of the work that needs to be done.

Speaker 2

If you’ve met one autistic person, you’ve met one autistic person. And while there’s an appreciation that there is process and there’s availability of certain reasonable adjustments and all of that piece around accommodating certain individuals, we have to appreciate that the person in front of you is going to be their own best advocate for explaining what support they need.

Speaker 2

There are common things across people, noise canceling headphones, for example, that could be considered a reasonable accommodation or a reasonable adjustment, or it could be considered a piece of universal design where we all work a little bit better with noise canceling headphones on sometimes.

Speaker 2

But the person that’s sitting in front of you is going to be in the best position to explain to you what they need to work optimally. And they might need some help figuring it out. It’s not to say that, you know, any neurodistinct individual or someone in need of support should come with a list of these are the things I need.

Speaker 2

It may require some coaching by our HRBPs or by whoever’s involved within that process or their manager. But… ultimately, it’s not about prescribing what someone needs, it’s about giving them the opportunity to figure it out and identify what that is for themselves.

Speaker 2

And sometimes some things aren’t going to be available, but if you’re clear in your communication about why that is, or, you know, we’ll look into this and, you know, keeping people updated in terms of how the process is moving along.

Speaker 2

This sounds like very simple stuff, but it doesn’t happen. And it doesn’t happen in our workplaces enough when people are in need of that additional support. So neuro inclusion is all about understanding our differences on this fundamental human level and respecting them before we start looking at other characteristics that make us similar and different as people.

Speaker 1

That’s so important. And I think there was a recent study from Achievability in which they reported 73% of participants chose not to disclose information about their neurodivergence. And 20% advised that they regretted it as they found that there was no understanding about what their condition means.

Speaker 1

So I’m listening to you speak. And the coaching element, the HR element, which is so important, but this is, I think, inevitably, a lot of people are feeling as if they don’t know where to start with this work.

Speaker 1

But I like the framework that you’ve introduced. Provide everything for everyone, and then make the incremental changes. Link in with those people, speak to them, understand their condition. And I guess linking back to that vulnerability piece, you don’t necessarily have to have all the answers, because it’s never going to be just one solution for each person.

Speaker 1

So that’s great to hear that coming through. And just on the point of neurodiversity, we’re also aware that there are other elements of diversity demographics to consider. Are you able to talk us through some of those?

Speaker 2

Yeah so this would be kind of step three for me when I’m working with clients and on any inclusion journey in my opinion. So starting with our well-being, looking at neuro-inclusion and then having a look at diversity.

Speaker 2

So once we’ve looked at ourselves and have an understanding of each other, how do we then layer on these additional pieces of our identity? So the first thing would be that there are some things that we are born with.

Speaker 2

These are known as inherent characteristics, things like our race and ethnicity, our gender to a point, our sexual orientation. These three would be the most familiar that people are aware of and they tend to be where the mind goes when we start talking about diversity and inclusion.

Speaker 2

But there’s also things like our cultural context, if we were born into a specific religion, our socio-economic status or indeed our neuro-diversity characteristics as we’ve been talking about. And that’s just a sample of what we could consider our inherent characteristics of what we are born with as humans.

Speaker 2

And then there’s acquired diversity characteristics or pieces around our lived experience. So it could be the languages we speak, our educational status, our parental status and then there’s some things that can jump between those two categories.

Speaker 2

So for example you might acquire a physical disability over the course of your life or even to the fact of if somebody is after breaking a limb or is pregnant, they may be disabled by their environment in some way for a period of time.

Speaker 2

There could be around, you could be introduced to a brand new faith for example or we might change our socio-economic status through social mobility. So what we’re talking about here, the point is that it’s much larger than just gender, race or LGBTQ status and it’s actually about all the facets of being human.

Speaker 2

And I was running a session for a client earlier this week and this was part of the presentation within which we were talking about diversity in its largest spectrum and looking at all of these different characteristics.

Speaker 2

And a question came in anonymously to say if diversity is defined as everything that comes together for us to be humans and all facets of it, how can we begin to have that represented within our workplace?

Speaker 2

And my answer was quite simply is nobody is asking you to represent every facet of being human within one space. It’s about recognising that we have lots of different facets of being humans. There are lots of different facets to our identities, to our lived experience that’s going to contribute to having a different viewpoint.

Speaker 2

It’s going to contribute to having a space to not risk a thing called groupthink. And groupthink is when there is very little diversity in the room. People have very similar lived experiences, have come from very similar backgrounds and there is just this blind spot for an experience outside of what is represented within the room.

Speaker 2

So the goal is never to tick all the boxes, definitely not and that is something that shines through within diversity, inclusion and belonging work consistently as nobody wants a tick box exercise. But it is about seeing ourselves as whole humans and bringing all of those elements to the table in a much more meaningful way.

Speaker 2

And that requires work, it requires people being vulnerable, it requires people questioning their own assumptions, their stereotypes, biases, recognising we have biases and how they’re affecting our behaviour.

Speaker 2

And it’s a lot of work but it has to be done and it’s as simple as that. It has to be done and we’re at a pivotal moment in history at the moment for that piece to really be a meaningful cornerstone within businesses, workplaces and society as a whole.

Speaker 1

totally agree and we’ve almost come full circle because we’re back to, I guess, psychological safety and how that impacts your behavior in your workplace, how you’re able to contribute or feel that you can contribute and be listened and heard to.

Speaker 1

So, you know, from your perspective, maybe let’s start with a brief just overview of what psychological safety is first and foremost for people who may not have come across this term before. And we’ve already looked at some of the things that might help or hinder it, but if there’s anything else that you want to add to that space, then it would be great to hear.

Speaker 2

I think the very simple answer here that we can get very technical and operationally defining what psychological safety is, but in terms of practicality, I think you’ve hit the nail on the head there, Davina, in terms of it’s about people feeling safe.

Speaker 2

It’s about people being able to speak without fear of repercussions. And that could be in the sense of sharing an idea with a group, you know, being able to speak without, we’ll say, microaggressions being aimed at you, or being shut down in some way.

Speaker 2

Or it could be about being able to speak to your manager one on one about what’s going on for you personally. But it’s primarily about feeling safe and without fear of repercussion. And it’s also about being heard.

Speaker 2

So it’s all well and good for people to, to actually get to a position where they can speak, and feel like they can speak up within a meeting, or within a one to one with their, with their manager. But it’s also about having someone in front of you who is really hearing what you have to say.

Speaker 2

And that involves be feeling validated in what you’ve shared, and potentially seeing action coming from that, if it is something that requires action. It’s not always, sometimes somebody just wants to talk, they don’t want solutions.

Speaker 2

And it’s about being able to just say, I understand, I hear you, that’s difficult. But it’s really about creating that space where people feel like they can, from a practical standpoint, then in terms of creating that space, there’s formal ways in which you can do it, such as, psychological safety statements, at the beginning of a meeting, where you look at confidentiality, you look at setting rules of interactions,

Speaker 2

and how people are going to engage with one another, and discussing what values there are there with the group, to give people permission to hold one another to those values and to continue to have that psychologically safe space.

Speaker 2

But it’s about seeing people as people, giving people the space to mess up. That is such a key piece within psychological safety, that if I put an idea out there, and I’m supported to run with it, but then it doesn’t materialize, if the reaction thereafter is blame on me, or some kind of negative repercussion, what ends up happening is people don’t try anymore, and they don’t feel safe to try.

Speaker 2

So it’s not even just about feeling safe to try, it’s about feeling safe to fail, and having the support to get through that. And to your point, then, what hinders it is just the lack of all the above.

Speaker 2

So when people speak up, they’ve been vulnerable, maybe raised some kind of a concern, and they see no action, or they don’t receive a reason for the lack of action. Sometimes it’s just about closing the feedback loop.

Speaker 2

But again, it’s simple things like this that we don’t have time in our organizations to do. And that’s what we hear so consistently. And it’s not that you don’t have time, it’s that it’s not seen as a priority.

Speaker 2

But it is. If people aren’t feeling validated, if they are actively being faced with stigma, repercussions, or anything else that erodes trust, that’s what’s going to hinder culture where psychological safety is at the heart.

Speaker 1

That’s really good information there. And I remember from a recent McKinsey report when they were detailing the challenges for diverse groups, there was a suggestion and a comment more so on what was happening in current times and just coming back to that historical pivotal moment that you’re speaking about and all the social injustice that has been very strong in the last couple of years.

Speaker 1

The reflection was that everyone is struggling, but it’s that diverse populations in groups are struggling more so than others. And so when it comes to the workplace, I think you hit the nail on the head in trying to draw that out from people and understand what support they need, but also with the basis of the understanding that you might not be able to solve everything.

Speaker 1

Maybe people want to just express how they’re feeling and sometimes our natural tendency as people who care about others is to try and solve. I see you nodding your head there quite vigorously.

Speaker 2

Exactly. We always jump to solutions and sometimes it’s just, sometimes it’s worse. I don’t know about you Davina, but sometimes when I’m having a rant of some description or if I’m feeling quite emotional about something and someone starts to try and solve it, I just, I disengage completely.

Speaker 2

It’s about being able to say, are you okay? No, but are you really okay? Actually, I’m not. And then going, oh yeah, that is awful. I’m sorry. Well, maybe you need to do this.

Speaker 1

or at least you have to be thankful of that and trying to minimize the problem. And this work is not going to go away. I believe since I’ve been an employment myself, a good number of years now, it has only grown in strength and more employers are looking to have more robust diversity, equity and inclusion, supports, infrastructure, training, programs, policies.

Speaker 1

So I guess just one final question in relation to how do you see this area further developing? Is there anything that employers should be doing or well shouldn’t be doing in relation to keeping their key players?

Speaker 1

And that includes everyone on the team because there is a cost to business in employee turnover. And if this is something simple to fix or to continue working towards and directing, as you said, intentional efforts towards, what would be the key themes and takeaways that you direct employers to be looking at in this time?

Speaker 2

That’s a really big question. And I think it is- No pressure. No pressure at all. Let me solve every, no. It is. That’s a really, really big question. And I think it starts way back at where we started this conversation today.

Speaker 2

And it starts with wellbeing. A really great, a really fantastic finding that I came across only yesterday, actually, was a review of FTSE 100 companies where all the reviewers looked at was the annual reporting.

Speaker 2

And those that mentioned the word wellbeing outperformed those from a business perspective than those who didn’t. And that just in itself, even just acknowledging the fact that we are more than just meat robots sitting behind desks doing particular tasks.

Speaker 2

It’s about recognizing the full human. And we’ve seen a lot of that in the pandemic. And I think businesses need to recognize the fantastic work that middle managers in particular have been doing in terms of supporting staff, but also general leadership, HR, all the HR people, back to my HR roots, and businesses in general.

Speaker 2

There has been a real uplift in the terms of wellbeing, but we need to embed that now. Because if businesses go backwards and we go back into not speaking about these things, not appreciating the full human, then all of a sudden, it’s a glaring, obvious moment of inauthenticity.

Speaker 2

And that is where you are going to see the talent hemorrhage that is happening right now coming after your own business. We have to look after people as full humans. And we almost have to help one another to look after people as full humans.

Speaker 2

So we need to transition this culture of speaking to one another about more than just work and deeper things than the weather, which is often the go-to. And that can be really scary. And again, it comes back to that idea of having psychological safety, being able to offer not just solutions, but also just being able to hear people.

Speaker 2

It’s about being able to ask about your blind spots. And that’s where you see the benefit of diversity of thought coming into the room. So when you can ask as a leader in particular, or even if you’re just leading a project, if you can ask for feedback, if you can ask for what am I missing here, that’s modelling really inclusive behaviour.

Speaker 2

And that’s where it all begins, really. There’s plenty of resources out there consultants like myself, who are there to help businesses on this journey, depending, you know, there’s various factors at play.

Speaker 2

It’s about budget, it’s about time, it’s about all of these other elements coming together, but those resources are out there. And no matter what your budget is, you will find something to start that conversation.

Speaker 2

And there are plenty of things to keep the conversation going internally as well. But what research is showing us, Monster published something quite recently around this talent acquisition that 86% of candidates globally, say diversity, equity and inclusion in the workplace is of importance to them.

Speaker 2

And if they’re not seeing those statements on websites, they’re not even applying. So it’s about getting people in the door. And then to your point, it’s about keeping those key players as well, giving people the opportunity to feel included.

Speaker 2

And that’s not just about employee resource groups, although a huge element of it is that community piece. And you can always start with something small. You could start with a wellbeing group and just bringing people together to focus on this topic and to talk about it.

Speaker 2

But what it is really about is just building this community from tiny conversations, from tiny interactions, from having a cup of tea with a colleague and giving people the space to do that and the permission to do that, messaging coming from leadership, encouraging people to do that.

Speaker 2

That’s where it all begins. And then once you get a bit of momentum going, you only need one person, one person in an organization who wants to start this conversation. Get a bit of momentum behind it.

Speaker 2

Find some senior people who are interested in this as well, of which I am sure there are many. Once you get that kind of additional influence behind you, be you an individual contributor, a manager, somebody who is the diversity, inclusion, and belonging person in the company.

Speaker 2

Once you get that buy-in from some key stakeholders, that’s when you can really start looking at more formal pieces like engaging with consultants for strategies, for learning opportunities, and different things are going to suit different businesses.

Speaker 2

So start small and then build from there.

Speaker 1

Thank you Anya for joining us today. There’s some really powerful and empowering discussion points that we’ve had there. And it’s been fantastic hearing your insights in such a huge range of important topics.

Speaker 1

But I guess one of the key things here is seeing how they’re all interrelated, not seeing it as one item that you succinctly go through. It’s seeing how the whole system moves as one. So also thank you to the listener.

Speaker 1

And if you’re interested in learning more about neurodiversity, then please explore zerohealth.com for some fantastic resources or pop across to Anya’s AM learning website. We look forward to welcoming you back for another episode of Zero Talk.