Men’s Health Day – The importance of discussing men’s health

Speaker 1

Hey, everybody, welcome to Zevo Talks. I am your guest host for today, John Paul, or JP Hughes. And today, we’re going to be talking around all the topics around men’s health. It’s International Men’s Day, and we wanted to bring to the fore some of the issues and things that come up regularly with men’s health.

Speaker 1

And to do that today, I’ve brought in Jamie O’Crowley. So how’s it going? Yeah, welcome, Jamie. I was just going to keep talking, but so me and Jamie are good friends. We’re workmates, we’re colleagues, but we sit on very different spectrums.

Speaker 1

So I’m on the physical health end and looking at things like exercise, nutrition, sleep. And I’ll let Jamie explain what kind of side of the fence he sits on.

Speaker 2

Sure. So my side of the fence is is from the the mental and emotional well being. So like JP said, we both working for Zivo Health for a couple years. And my background is I’m a psychotherapist too. So I can speak to some aspects of that, but mainly what’s what really what works for me and I hope that’s that can be passed on the correct way.

Speaker 1

Yeah, brilliant. And I’ll just quickly go into my background just so you understand where I’m coming from. Yeah, again, I’ve been here for a couple years. And before that, I worked in high performance sports, and also youth sport and all things around that.

Speaker 1

So I definitely come at this with the lens of sport and seeing guys and groups and the benefits of those communities and discussions that happen around those groups. And what happens when we start to lose that for a lot of individuals, and often late 20s, 30s, 40s, and sometimes we lose those communities and the negative effects of that.

Speaker 1

So yeah, I guess what runs that nicely runs into is why we’re sitting here today. And what are the major challenges around men’s health? And maybe Jamie, you could go into a little bit why we’re sitting here today, I suppose.

Speaker 2

Sure, yeah. I mean, look, in terms of mental health, this day definitely serves as a reminder for men to check in with themselves or to promote some essence of self-valuation on how they’re currently coping day to day.

Speaker 2

Now, this is always important to do, but today works all the more so because irrespective of how people react to International Men’s Day, whether they think it’s good or whether they think it’s open to be being slagged or made fun of in a way.

Speaker 2

I mean, you’re going to hear around this time of year that shares an everyday International Men’s Day and to a point that is fair. But like I said, irrespective of how we react to this day, it serves as a reminder for men to check in with how they’re doing across the spectrum of their lives.

Speaker 2

There is no doubt that from a mental health standpoint, there has been massive leaps forward in terms of normalizing the fact that having an issue or struggling or being in difficulty is okay and can be worked with.

Speaker 2

There are still plenty of men out there who deem any sort of mental health difficulty as being a sign of weakness or not something which they should be admitting. It’s the kind of keep calm and carry on fridge magnet mentality that can unfortunately perpetuate the silence of speaking about mental health difficulties.

Speaker 2

Even though splitting people into demographics can be quite a sterile way of engaging with a topic like this, because of the title of the day, this can’t be helped. And perhaps it’s important to do so in order to clarify a few points.

Speaker 2

So look, JP, you and I are part of a demographic of people who are more likely to die by suicide. And it’s the greatest cause of death for men under the age of 35. So this is a serious issue. And behind these rates are the mental and emotional difficulties that can bring about this outcome.

Speaker 2

So the thousands of people who are struggling, some of whom are seeking help and some of whom aren’t quite simply men struggling with mental health difficulties have not been completely normalized. And to a significant extent, the stigma surrounding mental health difficulties still quite prevalent.

Speaker 2

So you can even break this down a bit in terms of how physical illnesses are differentiated from mental ones. So if someone came to you and says, look, I have a disorder, like a genetic disorder or something like that, you probably wouldn’t say, actually, that’s because you’re not thinking positive enough and you haven’t done enough mindfulness, you just wouldn’t say it.

Speaker 2

Yet there is a belief out there that if someone is struggling with a mental health difficulty, it is somehow linked with thoughts of, sure, just get over it. Or look at a positive quote on Instagram or take these pop psychological avenues.

Speaker 2

An illness is an illness is an illness and it should be treated as such. And look, we’re still a bit away from that being completely normalized. Once it is walking through that door of support is much easier.

Speaker 2

I mean, the doors are already open. But for a lot of people, the stigma attached is too heavy in order to walk through.

Speaker 1

Yeah, that makes complete sense. I guess the next question that kind of starts showing up is, you know, why is this happening? Like, why is there an increased amount of suicides among men? Now, I know you can’t throw a blanket and say this is exactly the reason, but is there anything that’s really pushing, you know, some of these statistics?

Speaker 2

Yeah, well, I mean, like you said, it’s very, it’s very hard to put any sort of blanket statement on that. I mean, the people are struggling and have always struggled with difficulties that the differences be, I think it really comes down to being normalized and the having that opportunity to seek support without stigma attached, and it’s something that can really help people again, walk through that door of support that’s already open.

Speaker 2

Now, look at me, we can kind of get philosophically go into what’s going on. I mean, obviously, COVID is obviously gonna be a big thing. You know, people are in are isolated and withdrawn a lot more, which can exacerbate things.

Speaker 2

And during this process, and myself included, I mean, there has been exaggerated introspection and magnified feelings that kind of work as a fun house mirror, they don’t really give me an accurate, accurate representation of what’s happening for me internally, but they still, they’re still powerful.

Speaker 2

And they can still perpetuate different lines of thoughts like, you know, I’m really struggling right now, can I get help? And then if you marry that with stigma, it’s going to be, you know, even more of an issue.

Speaker 2

So, you know, I think that there’s something to be said for, I mean, look, let’s just talk, let’s let’s talk generations. I think it’s important to bring that into because generate generation experience.

Speaker 2

I mean, from from my own experience, there does seem to be a generational difference between men who choose to seek support or not. So men from a particular generation, like say the one directly above us, for example, have grown up in a different set of circumstances and social conditions.

Speaker 2

The idea of, you know, being a man was dealing with things silently. And, you know, and avoiding perceived weakness, because to be weak is the worst possible thing in the world, you know. And then we have our generation, you know, which is where mental health for men, it was becoming more normalized, yet we still had influences from the generation above.

Speaker 2

So it became easier to seek support, but not necessarily easy. And, you know, I think that’s an important thing to note. And then, of course, we have the generation coming up directly below us, where mental health has become somewhat changed in a way to a kind of the second umbrella buzzword, in effect.

Speaker 2

And again, this is just a perspective. But underneath this umbrella, there are many, many new different difficulties that are now being adopted. And if this is both good and bad, the good side is that people are more willing to seek support and it’s becoming more normalized.

Speaker 2

The bad news is that the more choice there is for a difficulty, the more overwhelming it may be. In effect, we might have label, we might label ourselves with something and take on the narrative of that of that difficulty, without really engaging with what is going on for us on a, you know, a personal level, as a unique person with needs.

Speaker 2

Because labels work in a strange kind of way. And the labels in and of themselves have rules that can sometimes distract us from what we need and what our feelings may actually be. So like, I have this thing, I have this label, but I can’t feel anything else outside of this label, otherwise it’s not real.

Speaker 2

It’s that kind of somewhat of a trap. You know, in which case, there might be an ignoring of other aspects of us which may need to be addressed. I’m sorry, JP, there’s no set answer to this. But it can be useful to explore this while keeping, I suppose, the context of the time that we’re living in mind, you know.

Speaker 1

Yeah, for sure. I think that the whole COVID situation is a really interesting challenge that a lot of us are facing. And we know that in our communities, loneliness, and different feelings around social connection and lack of connection are, you know, really prevalent at the moment.

Speaker 1

And I guess, for my own personal experience, like, I lived after college, I meant I moved to New Zealand. And probably my favorite thing about New Zealand was that after work, after five or six o’clock, there is this whole lifestyle of socially connecting around positive lifestyle, positive like exercise nutrition, all these sort of things getting out, playing a sport, going in for runs, all these sort of things.

Speaker 1

And I remember seeing recently in the news where the time saving came from where they the first ideas of changing the clock came from New Zealand, because they really wanted to push giving people more time in the evening to have that social connection, have that time to exercise and enjoy the weather.

Speaker 1

And I remember when I was coming back home, the Ireland, that was my main priority. I knew I was nesting and making a home here. But I really wanted to create that in the evening and the afternoons create that social circle around me where I could do the things that I wanted to do.

Speaker 1

And I think that was really helpful for me for my mental health. And for the people around me, first thing I did when I got home was I started trying to create groups of people that had similar interests, and like running cycling, swimming, all the things that I like to do, I create that social circle.

Speaker 1

And for me, that’s been been super beneficial. And I just wonder if you know of any kind of research or your personal experience, like how that social connection and loneliness can affect men and if it’s any difference than than women.

Speaker 2

I think, look, I think that ultimately it’s not, there’s no real difference between, between, you know, men and women and for lots of, lots of ways. But especially in terms of social interaction, I mean, even if you, there’s almost like a badge of honor, that’s kind of floating around to people that say, well, I’m introverted.

Speaker 2

And this is who I am. I love being alone, and I love reading books alone, and all those kinds of stuff, which is fair. And that’s fine. But, but ultimately, irrespective of how introverted you may label yourself, or you may deem yourself, we still need social interaction in some way, shape or form.

Speaker 2

And it’s important to kind of remember that the benefits of relating to, to other people has huge benefits in terms of how it can decrease your overall felt sense of sense of stress or increase self esteem, self worth of being attached to something and being able to communicate and feel heard by other people.

Speaker 2

It’s so important in terms of how we relate to one another. And I just wanted to even just maybe talk about now in terms of COVID, because I even that word relating, I mean, right now, you and I aren’t in the same room, right?

Speaker 2

So we’re doing this to our computers, you know, I’m relating to my laptop to get to your laptop to get to you. So we’re already two parts removed. And even though it’s really good for for communication, it might not necessarily be good for for connecting.

Speaker 2

And it’s just important to remember that as well at the time, like, we might we might feel that we’re engaging in a way that that means something, but we’re still a few parts removed, and it can have its effects too.

Speaker 2

And there are ways around it there, I mean, it’s always better to be talking through zoom, hangouts, or whatever it is, or Google quiz, as I was gonna say, as you can tell, I use computer very often.

Speaker 2

But Google, Google hangouts, and stuff like that. And because we’re still getting that that social interaction, no matter how fed up you might be with a zoom quiz right now. It’s still something and there’s so it’s so easy to withdraw right now, if we’re being told that we have to isolate.

Speaker 2

And we’re already naturally inclined to being somewhat introverted. Anyway, we may take on the mantle of withdrawing further. And then it gets a little bit hard to bridge the gap. So remembering that these techno strategies are useful as well, you know, in terms of trying to keep a community in real life, it’s always gonna be better than an online community.

Speaker 2

But an online community does serve a purpose. And it can remind us that we’re not really alone, in a sense. And also provides the opportunity for people to talk about stuff, saying something out loud, naming a struggle difficulty that you’re having, rather than having is reverberating around your own head all day.

Speaker 2

You know, because once I say something out loud, so I’m sitting here with you and I have difficulty, even though this is online, if I’m talking about this, you know, I’m kind of removing myself from the swirls of images and conflicting images and one word memories and all this kind of big maelstrom of stuff that’s happening in my head.

Speaker 2

Once I tune back, tune into myself and name something for myself out loud, one of two things is going to happen. I’m going to say something to you, and I’m going to be like, right, that’s a that’s a really good representation of what’s happening for me internally.

Speaker 2

Or I’m going to hear what I say and go, I don’t know where that came from, I don’t feel that way at all. But it doesn’t matter because you’re because you’re still you’re still making something tangible, you’re moving the energy out into somewhere else where it can be picked up.

Speaker 2

And it’s, and I suppose this, again, is to attach to what you’re saying about community, there’s something similar happening there. It’s someone that’s just present to your needs, if you choose to or not, if you choose to engage that way or not.

Speaker 2

I honestly, honestly, God can’t remember the question that you asked me, but I hope that covered some of it. And again, this is all just a perspective only. It’s not nothing. There’s absolutely nothing set in stone, you know, it’s just it’s just that we’re working with feelings here, you know.

Speaker 1

Yeah, well, the community that is probably the most, the most reverberating for me, that’s a difficult word for me there. And it really impacts me, the idea of community. And, and I think, like, my personal experience is that a lot of guys, they have that community maybe in school or in college, and it might be positive or negatively associated with something like drinking or whatever it is, but it’s still a community.

Speaker 1

And it might be sports, it might be whatever a sewing club, I don’t know, might be something working on cars. But usually, we’re often in communities a bit earlier in life. And as we start to change and evolve through our life, and we start to, you know, meet partners and get married and work, a lot of these communities seems like they start to detach.

Speaker 1

And you know, you lose people and you might move to a new city and you don’t know as many people. Yeah, and it can be maybe a little bit more difficult to create these communities if you’re not trying and you’re not being active and getting there and doing these things.

Speaker 1

And I think my experiences guys sometimes aren’t the best at texting on each other. I’m saying, Hey, let’s go. Let’s go get a coffee, you know, or let’s go for a walk and get a coffee. You know, it’s just for especially Irish guys that just don’t think it’s, it’s, you know, we think it’s it’s the first thing we think of, it’s a lot easier if we have a pint or something like that.

Speaker 1

But again, we’re talking about men’s health and you’re not really wanting to promote these things as well. So if you are feeling that, you know, you’re, you’re, you’re looking at each weekend and thinking because what am I going to do this weekend and you literally have nothing on, you know, you think your highlight of your weekend is going for a walk with the dog.

Speaker 1

Yeah, maybe it’s time to start looking out and trying to dip your toes and communities because it seems like there is a lot out there, you know, it doesn’t have to be just exercise. I’m just used to that kind of world, but just texting a friend and say, Hey, let’s, let’s go for, you know, a very slow and hard jog around the town, you know, tree or 4k.

Speaker 1

And that connection can be can be really important. Just grabbing a coffee or something after that. And but the community aspect for me, is one that I think many men, it starts to, they start to lose.

Speaker 1

And I it’s much easier to, you know, exercise in groups and you’re kind of get taken along with the wave of positive lifestyle changes, but also I think you’d know more about the mental health side of things, you know,

Speaker 3

Hmm

Speaker 2

Well, I don’t know if I’d know more about that at all. I think it’s, no, I’m serious, because it’s a very subjective thing. And I do agree with you, I think communities are very important. And again, they provide that space from which you can you can work with something with somebody else, as opposed to taking on the mantle of how I’m just dealing with stuff on my own.

Speaker 2

And which I suppose, again, it comes back into we’re aware of that, we’re aware of that generation, I suppose, like we were talking about before, which is, we can, we know this, but there could be still some resistance to it.

Speaker 2

And based on whatever conditioning we grew up with. And so I mean, like anything, like any way looking after yourself, it probably will. And not just probably it will take an active effort, as you’re saying, you know, to take someone to meet up obviously distance now.

Speaker 2

Although text messaging is always distant, I suppose. But it’s what you want to mean, if you’re meeting up where you’re going for those those jogs, or whatever else it’s, there’s an act. Yeah, it has to be somewhat active.

Speaker 2

But the same time, it’s almost like what can you do to to support yourself before you get to that, to get to that, that stage because it’s kind of all well and good on paper to be like, okay, well, if I just if I just talk to someone about my problem, or if I engage with the community, I know this will make me feel better.

Speaker 2

But right now, it’s like, okay, well, and how do I best support myself today, in order to build up my resilience enough that allows me then to reach out if I choose. And that can be kind of tricky as well.

Speaker 2

So if there’s almost there almost needs to be like a constant checking in. And again, there’s gonna be a classic therapist phrase, right? So I’m sorry about it, but also in a very much in a non judgmental way.

Speaker 2

It’s like, this is how I’m feeling today, I might not feel this way tomorrow, but this is how I’m feeling today. Therefore, what do I need around this feeling today? How do I support myself today? What will work for me today, in a safe way?

Speaker 2

And look, what works for me might not work for you. But that’s, that’s, that’s, that’s okay. But the important thing is, if it’s, if it’s something as active, whether you’re reaching out to a community, or you’re reaching out, you know, in some way to yourself, you know, it’s still gonna take a little bit of a push to do so in the context of the time, where everything is uncertain and weird anyway,

Speaker 2

so it might take a little bit more fire to kind of to kind of get it done, you know. So yeah, so I hear you to someone does a balancing act involved as well.

Speaker 1

So that’s, that’s super interesting. And I think a lot of people listening, they might attach to that, and they might say, Okay, how do I go about that self evaluation process? What’s the first step?

Speaker 1

Like, do they just, yeah, just ask themselves, how are they? Or would you recommend, you know, what’s, what’s a really simple and practical way someone can just evaluate how they are?

Speaker 3

Well, let’s.

Speaker 2

I mean, there’s quite a lot of lads out there that need that, like, toolkits, toolboxes, something that they can attach to in order to get it going. And I fully understand that. So within that mindset, having something, even something simple on your phone, like, you know, you can set up reminders on your phone to do something.

Speaker 2

Now, I’m the least technologically proficient person in the world. And I still figured out to do this in the phone. So it is, if I can do it, anyone can do it. But it is a case of just setting up a reminder for yourself once in the morning, once in the late afternoon, and just simply writing down the words, check in, right?

Speaker 2

So just check in or check in with yourself. Now, how you do that’s up to you. But here’s some things that I do that I don’t know if it may be of you. So checking in, how am I doing? How am I feeling?

Speaker 2

How am I feeling right now? And what’s my body doing? How have I reengaged my body? I spent all day on the screen today. Have I reengaged with my body to see how I’m doing? Once I start checking in, so I start using self expression through movements, can I do some stretches, see how maybe the shoulders are a bit tense, maybe I’m carrying a bit of anxiety in my chest.

Speaker 2

Maybe my knee has been jumping up for the last half an hour without me realizing it, can I tune back in and go, okay, what do I need around these feelings? Maybe if I’m feeling anxious, I might be feeling a little bit afraid.

Speaker 2

If I’m feeling afraid, what do I need? Do I need to feel safe again? How do I do that? So it’s that kind of gentle approach there. And if we can do that, maybe three times a day, it’s almost like a skill set, because turning that lens inward, to check in on how you’re doing, I met nobody who wakes up one morning and is like, right, that’s it.

Speaker 2

I’m totally actualized. I know myself backwards. It’s a constant work in progress. And I take somewhat of a push forward to go race. How am I feeling? And right, maybe you either right, I find it useful to write it down.

Speaker 3

Thank you.

Speaker 2

I have like, oh, this is a podcast, I was going to show you. You can hear this, but I have like, even just a simple journal for myself, right? So this is what I use every day. And it’s not like, you know, Dear Jamie, I missed you last night.

Speaker 2

How’s things? Nothing’s up. It’s simple for me. And there’s nothing wrong with that. That’s the approach you want to take. But for me, that doesn’t necessarily work. But I do write down my body feels this.

Speaker 2

I am feeling this. My head’s at this place or something like that. And then I just roll it out and leave it and ask myself, what do I need around these feelings and just check in that way. And you’d be surprised the more often that you do this, you get easier to do it.

Speaker 2

And you’re building up that skill set, but it puts you in a better position then to naturally think about your needs, as opposed to willfully getting like trudging up the hill to define them, because you’re used to that process within yourself.

Speaker 2

And also, I find quite useful too, is that by physically writing something down, similar to what I was saying about speaking something out loud to somebody, and then you’re moving your something becomes tangible, same process for writing something down.

Speaker 2

Once I use my body to express something onto a page, I’m going to read what I say, and either it’s going to be a good physical representation, or I’m going to have no idea where it came from, but I’m still using it as an outlet.

Speaker 2

And the same time serves as a checking in process. And look, I mean, that’s, that’s where I would start. I mean, start really simply, just check in with yourself a couple times a day, write on your phone or a reminder check in.

Speaker 2

Oh, yeah, how am I doing? Oh, geez, actually, no, I’m feeling like, you know, my back is killing me or something. But even something as simple as that, you’re reconnecting with your body, because we’re spending so much more time with moments in our hands navigating, you know, the matrix in a way.

Speaker 1

Yeah, I think that that’s a brilliant takeaway for a lot of people and something really practical that even someone like myself, who doesn’t do that, you know, not actively anyway, that can start straight away.

Speaker 1

And I guess then not looking at yourself as much and seeing other people around you, like, we often hear around international men’s day and men’s health in general, yeah, like, communication is such a key, you talking to people, you know, how do you help someone, you know, you might not know if they’re struggling, or you might know that they’re struggling, like, what’s the first and a very simple thing that you can do.

Speaker 1

And I know this is, again, something that you can throw a blanket over, but is there any idea that someone can use

Speaker 2

Well, look, I mean, it can be so easy to want techniques or tips and tricks in order to recognize if someone is struggling or not. There are people out there that will show outward signs of being low, but there are many people who are struggling and still be the life of the party.

Speaker 2

So it’s always going to be up to the individual to take the step towards support, but that doesn’t mean that there is nothing we can do if we happen to notice or suspect that someone isn’t feeling the best.

Speaker 2

And again, the key thing, I suppose for me anyway, the key thing is just simplicity and showing up to someone’s needs if appropriate. So remembering that asking someone how they’re doing can be so incredibly powerful.

Speaker 2

First of all, it shows support, right? But secondly, it offers the room for the person you have asked to tell you how they are or to avoid answering. This leaves the power with them, right? They don’t feel put upon the power still with them.

Speaker 2

And all we can do is show up. So if we ask someone how they’re doing, we’re passing them the ball, then it’s up to them if they want to run with it or pass it back. And in many cases, some people might not have been asked how they’re doing in a long, long time.

Speaker 2

So it might serve as a springboard to even let you in if they choose. And I suppose that would be kind of the don’t underestimate the power of asking someone how are they can be quite useful.

Speaker 1

Yeah, I think that’s a that’s, again, you know, as you say, people are going to show different emotions outwardly. And I think that’s the main thing to understand from this. And that’s just because someone seems super happy on the outside doesn’t mean that they’re super happy on the inside.

Speaker 1

So just checking in with everyone. I think the the Irish way is you know, how’s things all grand? Yeah, I mean, it can be sometimes difficult, you know, to get past that. But yeah, just just do connecting with them and just Yeah, no, how are you doing?

Speaker 1

And how’s things been the last couple weeks? Or, you know, you might not get the the answer the first or second time. But I think as you say, it’s probably the onus is on the person to help communicate that that as you can’t force anything from anybody.

Speaker 2

No, I think you’re right. I mean, ultimately, it is down to us if we decide to seek support or not. And being dragged, kicking and screaming into something may, in fact, have the opposite effect. You know, I can’t advise on the best way to do anything.

Speaker 2

I can advise and have the best thing for me to do. That’s all I’m qualified to speak about is what works for me. Everyone has to find what works for them, because we’re all different and all complex.

Speaker 2

But, you know, I suppose drawing from, I mean, this may be of use. I know it might not be, but you can edit me out if you want. But I think it’s important here as well, is that the best answer that I can give about how to even seek support or how to communicate what you need or how do you get comfortable enough with finding it is, I suppose, based on my own experience with seeking support.

Speaker 2

So I know that about nine or maybe 10 years ago now, I was feeling particularly down for quite a long time, you know, and then it kind of eventually surfaced to a couple of months of feeling very, very, very low.

Speaker 2

And the reasons for that aren’t for here, but eventually I realized, and actually from the help of my partner, by just talking, being able to talk out loud to someone, shouldn’t try and advise me on anything, but by talking out loud, I kind of realized that that, maybe of use to seek out some of the support available.

Speaker 2

So the first part of call is always the doctor. So it was always what was the place to go. And just to get a checkup and see if there’s any underlying physical reasons for mood change and stuff like that.

Speaker 2

And the doctor recommended to me that I see someone and gave me a card for a therapist. Now, I only had my, I only had ideas of therapy from like film and TV. So I thought it would be someone like, you know, Biddy Crystal from Analyze This.

Speaker 2

I’ve never seen that, but I thought it’d be like that, staring at me for an hour. Now, luckily it wasn’t, like most therapy isn’t, I suppose, but after a year of weekly sessions, I was feeling better than finished the therapy.

Speaker 2

Then I took some time and eventually revisited therapy, which I attend regularly now. Now I find it useful and that’s all I can really speak to. The more I’ve been able to relate, learn to relate to myself in a kinder way and a more understanding way, the better my general outlook has been.

Speaker 2

But it took that initial step of going right. I’m finally ready now to get the support that I feel that I need. And no one was dragging me into it. No one was pushing me into it. Because like I said, if you’re pushing to anything, you’re just going to resist it.

Speaker 2

It’s not going to work. But stepping into that and realizing testing the water is true, doctors, therapists, things like that, to eventually get to something that’s okay, this feels okay for me. And then like I said, some people might just never do that.

Speaker 2

And they might just be happy just doing something completely different. And that’s okay, too. But it’s at the point at which you’re ready to step into something. It can be can be hugely, usually useful, you know.

Speaker 2

Thank you.

Speaker 1

Okay, that’s thanks for sharing that. And I think that really encapsulates a lot of people’s story, you know. And I think, like, we’ve, we’ve given people a lot of tools and a lot of resources, and we’ve discussed a good few points.

Speaker 1

And maybe it’s just a good idea to, to recap one or two of the things and, you know, just to give them some takeaways. I think, as you said, maybe the first place to start is that self evaluation, you know.

Speaker 1

Yeah.

Speaker 2

Absolutely, yeah.

Speaker 1

So from there, I think giving people, the people around you, close to you, you know, giving them the opportunity to talk and, you know, just asking the question that check in, you know, how are you doing is going to be a key tool for a lot of people.

Speaker 1

And then from my side of things, I think it’s important just to, to again, evaluate what your community is like around you. And if some of those communities have broken down over the last couple years, and, and your feeling there’s a lack of social connection, and there’s probably a lack of social connection, just in general at the moment, just to evaluate, you know, is there anything that might be beneficial for you there to deprecose?

Speaker 1

And, you know, and for me, that was the most positive thing that I’ve done for my mental health and talking to a lot of, you know, friends and family that are in and around my town. And it’s really beneficial just to make those connections.

Speaker 1

And it can be difficult to start off with, you know, if you don’t know nobody, and you haven’t been involved in some of these communities, but you very rarely you’ll regret showing up to try something new at least once.

Speaker 3

Hmm

Speaker 1

So I don’t know if you have anything else to add on to the end of that, but.

Speaker 3

Well, I think, I think for me, we.

Speaker 2

record that the idea of checking in and community and all that things we talked about, there is one thing that I suppose I’m left with around this. And if there’s one thing I can take away from there, if for me, it’s if you can get into the habit of asking yourself, what do I need?

Speaker 2

Not what I should do, not what I shouldn’t do, but what do I need? And I think that could be very useful. I can kind of provide a map and a structure to get to the point where you’re where you’re thinking satisfy that needs, obviously, if it’s safe, and it’s appropriate for you.

Speaker 2

But what do I need? Maybe what do I need right now? What do I need in this particular feeling? You know, because I was just thinking, if you say, what do I need? Sometimes the answer right now could be, well, I want COVID to go away.

Speaker 2

What is never have existed. It’s like, okay, well, how about really, really narrow it down? What do I need right now? What do we need around this feeling?

Speaker 1

Yeah. Yeah, I think that’s such a practical and simple takeaway that anyone can do. And I’m going to try and implement straight away. And meet me too.

Speaker 2

to revisit it myself as well you know

Speaker 1

It’s good to get the reminders because it’s good to keep it simple. Okay, so that nicely wraps up our talk our podcast on men’s health for International Men’s Day 2020. So Jamie, do you have any final words for anybody?

Speaker 2

No, I think we covered all the ground stages. Thanks very much for having me again. And it was really good to be able to talk about a lot of this stuff as candidly as we did. I think that’s the more candid conversations that can be had, the easier it might be to normalize what’s going on for each of us as individuals.

Speaker 1

Yeah, I think you’re definitely right. I think there’s a there’s enough practical advice or people say, you know, oh, you exercise more and, you know, eat better, or on your side of things, it might be a talk more, but yeah, just to do that, and actually, to practically start talking candidly about it is a great way to start, as you say.

Speaker 1

Thanks, guys, for listening. And that wraps up our episode. Make sure you tune in for our next podcast. And yeah, we’ll see you then.