Moderator Diaries: Navigating the Typical Journey of a Content Moderator

Speaker 1

Welcome everyone back to Zevo Talks. Today I’m discussing navigating a typical journey of a content moderator. I am your host, Dr. Michelle Tio, the clinical director at Zevo Health. And my guest today is Shauna Farrell, who is our clinical program lead at Zevo Health.

Speaker 1

She has been with us for two years and she leads out our digital therapy program and has also previously worked as a wellbeing specialist with Zevo on the frontline delivering wellbeing interventions to content moderation teams.

Speaker 1

So you’re very welcome, Shauna.

Speaker 2

Thank you, Michelle. Thanks for having me.

Speaker 1

So I suppose if we’re talking about the sort of typical journey of a content moderator, there’s various different stages that they go through in terms of their employment journey. And the first piece, I guess, is the onboarding.

Speaker 1

So would you maybe just share with our audience what kind of onboarding might look like for a content moderator and how some of our interventions take place during that stage?

Speaker 2

Yeah, sure, sure. So I suppose, you know, it depends various roles have different forms of onboarding, and I suppose they’re, they’re, they’re exposed to different forms of content, right? So some of them, it might be quite visual videos, some of them, it might be more text or audio.

Speaker 2

But I suppose that the onboarding process really is to help them to get to know more about the role and the expectations of the role, the kind of content that they might be seeing. And for a lot of them, it’s their first time in a role like this, right?

Speaker 2

So some of them might be coming from different companies, and they might be have experienced as content moderators before. But there are a lot of them who have never, who’ve never done this, this job before, or for some of them might be their first kind of adult job as well.

Speaker 2

So there’s the normal things that come with that, I think the kind of stress or or excitement even of, you know, starting a new job and having this, this role in in a big company, right? A lot of them are big tech companies.

Speaker 2

And that can be exciting for people as well to be to be working in those companies. And but it’s also a very specific role, as you know yourself, it’s different to things that they may have done before.

Speaker 2

And even though it’s a role that can bring a lot of fulfillment, because you’re, you’re keeping, I suppose, people safe, and you’re taking that stuff down from the internet that we don’t want the public seeing, that also has a difficult side too.

Speaker 2

So it’s getting the balance of I suppose, onboarding them to know what the role is going to look like, and also letting them know that there might be that exposure to the more difficult content, or there might be things that they see that might be graphic or hard for them to see as well.

Speaker 2

And so the onboarding is definitely processes. But also, I know from our side, it’s really important in the onboarding that they also have the, the well being stuff really early on. So that they’re aware of, okay, how might I be affected in this role?

Speaker 2

What are the kind of typical stressors that I might face? What are some of the things maybe more specific to content that might come up for me? And how do I get support for that? But also, what are the things that I can be doing to look after myself as I go through these onboarding, and as I start this, this job role?

Speaker 2

So I suppose, sorry, sorry.

Speaker 1

No, I was just going to say like, I think the big piece around onboarding from my experience anyway and like you’re saying is that there’s just so many different parts of it. So there’s the actual processes in relation to like, how do I do my job?

Speaker 1

What is it that I’m meant to do? But then there’s also the kind of psychological aspect of it where they’re coming into a role that they’ve maybe never done before, or that they’ve had like little experience with, or that it’s maybe just a different system and process that they’re using if they’re coming from a company where they previously used to do content moderation.

Speaker 1

And so it’s trying to navigate all of that and then understanding, well, how could this potentially impact my mental health? How could this make me feel a certain way or will I respond a certain way if I see a different type of content that I’m not used to seeing before?

Speaker 2

Yeah, exactly, exactly. It’s a lot of different moving parts and I think for most people the onboarding is quite a long process as well, like it’s maybe four weeks or six weeks and they have little exams and things like that just to make sure their knowledge is okay or do they need more support.

Speaker 2

So it’s probably more intense than a regular, let’s call it, onboarding for a different job and so that comes with its own, again, good parts and also difficulties as well. So I think for us it’s getting that support in really early right for them that they know that wellbeing exists because I think for everyone we work with, thankfully they provide that wellbeing service for their content moderators,

Speaker 2

for their trust and safety employees so they get extra mental health support. But also for some of our sites we’ll offer things like mindfulness drop-ins or like peer supports, creative interventions.

Speaker 2

So it’s just getting to them really early on to say, look these are the things that might affect your mental health early on and here are the ways that you can access support, which I think is really important just for them to feel very early on that they are going to be supported through this journey and that they can access that support straight away or if they don’t feel they need it straight away maybe it’ll be after a couple of months once they’ve kind of embedded themselves in the role a little bit more.

Speaker 1

Yeah, and I suppose the purpose of us getting in there really early with most of our customers is really that sense of trying to embed a culture of well-being as part of their job. You know, it’s not just their job to look at policies and make decisions based on those policies to keep platform users safe.

Speaker 1

It’s also taking care of themselves so that they can do their job well.

Speaker 2

Yeah, exactly. That’s such a good point that they need to have that work-life balance, that ability to switch off after work because I think as well it’s the kind of job where it’s less flexible when it comes to hours and things like that because they need coverage for all hours of the day and night and they need to make sure that content is being removed when it needs to be so they probably have less of an ability to have flexible work hours in some cases so it’s super important then that after their work time they’re taking that time to switch off maybe switch off from the news or content and things like that because they’re seeing it all the time and I know as well for us for a lot of companies that we work with you know we do those modules during their onboarding so we’ll do like every week we’ll give them two hours of like building resilience or self-care or just those kind of introductory level I suppose mental health related topics to start to give them a feel for these this is the way that you can look after yourselves or these are the evidence-based tools and techniques that will help you during this process but then you can also carry those through this job and continue to use them so I think that’s really important for us to be there for them from the beginning to give them the oversight give them the tools and techniques that they can then carry through and hopefully continue to use as they go through their their journey.

Speaker 1

Yeah. So I guess then the next stage is them sort of finishing their onboarding and kind of ramping up into the role. So from your perspective, what does that kind of look like?

Speaker 2

Yeah, so I suppose that stage is, again, can be tricky for them. They’re starting to maybe see actual content, whereas onboarding, they’ll give them examples, but then as soon as they are in their specific role, it depends on the role.

Speaker 2

Some of them will be seeing more graphic content than others. Some people might be working more with spam, some people might be working with things like war zones and things like that. So it just really just depends on what you’re working on.

Speaker 2

But there’s that element where definitely they’re starting to see more content, and sometimes that content can be difficult, and obviously that’s tricky. But also what we know as well is that quality is really important in interest and safety and content moderation, and this is something that I learned when I started working with content moderators.

Speaker 2

I think the assumption is the job is difficult because of the content, which can be true, but also they have to make sure that they are meeting pretty hard targets when it comes to taking the right things down off the Internet and doing it quickly and making sure they’re aligning with company policies.

Speaker 2

So there’s other stressors I think, and it takes time to get used to what are the policies? Where do I find the policies? Am I looking at the right policies? So I think the ramping up or the beginning of their journey, it’s just getting on top of a lot of different bits and pieces as well as starting to look at the content.

Speaker 2

It’s understanding all the policies and processes, and that I’m sure can also be, it can be tricky when you’re starting a new job and you’ve all this stuff in your mind to try to get on top of as well.

Speaker 1

Yeah, yeah. And I think that’s one of the pieces that I think we talk about a lot is that it’s not just content that’s potentially going to impact people and potentially going to cause that sense of stress or anxiety or sometimes a bit of fear or anger or whatever else it is, right?

Speaker 1

There’s all of the work-related factors outside of content that also have an impact in things like your performance targets are going to be hugely stressful. And anyone even outside of and safety would understand that, you know, like from the beginning of the year, you know, we’re looking at performance reviews.

Speaker 1

So regardless of what kind of role you’re in, you’re going to be sitting down in a performance review. It’s just that the targets I suppose for content moderators are very different than they would be in a general sort of corporate setting, right?

Speaker 1

Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2

Yeah, and I think their performance tends to be monitored quite closely just because they need to make sure that they are definitely taking down the things that need to be taken down, right? So it’s probably a role where you are monitored a little bit more closely, not necessarily because you’re not trusted, it’s just because of the role itself.

Speaker 2

That’s just kind of the way it has to be done so that they can make sure as a company that they’re meeting guidelines and they’re keeping people safe and things like that. So that can cause that bit of stress, especially if it’s a new role or if it’s not something you’re used to.

Speaker 2

Like any way monitoring performance or as you said, performance reviews can be anxiety provoking, right? So that’s something to maybe just start to get used to that maybe I have targets, I have a certain amount of pieces of content I have to look at every day, I have to hit this kind of score.

Speaker 2

So that’s a little bit of getting used to and I suppose from our end, it’s important there. I know for some places, a lot of companies, we do the kind of six month check in. So that’s a chance for us to check in with them.

Speaker 2

After six months, they’ve done their onboarding. They’ve had a chance to kind of familiarise themselves a little bit more with the role, but they’re still learning, right? Even though at six months in this job, you probably have had quite a lot of experience.

Speaker 2

You are still learning, right? Because it’s a high paced role, but that’s really helpful for us to check in. How are you? Is there anything else we can be doing to support you? And maybe catching people who haven’t already reached out to us, right?

Speaker 2

Because they can all book one to ones from their onboarding. But sometimes it helps us when we have that six month check in to just catch people who maybe do need a little bit of extra support and just generally check in with how they’re finding things and helping to keep building that resilience that they really do need.

Speaker 1

Yeah, I wonder even just from your experience, you know, working with content moderation teams, have you found particularly that those six month check-ins have been helpful for people or do do people not really want to engage with them?

Speaker 1

You know, what’s maybe the general sentiment about us reaching out to people and saying, how are you doing six months into the job?

Speaker 2

Yeah, I think generally I think people appreciate it. I mean, there’s always going to be people who maybe, you know, feel they maybe don’t need that support and that’s totally fine. But the general sentiment I found is people appreciate it.

Speaker 2

They’re very appreciative that they’re in a job where their wellbeing is actually considered right and that we want to know if they’re okay. And even for people who come and they are okay, I think they just appreciate being checked in on or knowing that they have a place to go.

Speaker 2

But also there are often people who think, you know, I’ve been meaning to book an appointment or I’ve been thinking about booking a one-to-one, but I haven’t got a range with, you know, there can be various things that get in the way of people asking for help.

Speaker 2

So I do find it it’s a good place for us to get in touch with people who need a bit of support who for whatever reason haven’t been able to ask for that themselves.

Speaker 1

And I guess like the six month check ins and the kind of one to ones aren’t the only way that we reach out to people within that kind of ramp up period, right? So there’s a lot of group interventions that we’ve been providing, there’s drop in options, there’s options where we encourage people like very strongly to attend like peer support sessions.

Speaker 1

So in terms of those types of sessions, what do you feel the general sentiment is when people are sort of still getting used to how things work in this job?

Speaker 2

Yeah, yeah, and I think exactly you’re right. We obviously have a lot of different ways to reach out to people so that it suits different needs or different personalities and things like that. But again, I think they it is appreciated the peer support in particular.

Speaker 2

It helps them to come. It’s like a safe space for them to share difficulties that they’ve been having and it’s with their whole team. So in the team, some people are going to be more experienced. Some people are going to be less experienced and I think they can learn from each other as well on like, you know, if someone’s maybe struggling a little bit, someone else on their team might be able to share,

Speaker 2

well, these are the things that have helped me or actually this does get easier over time. So yeah, in general, I think they they are appreciated. And I think it helps people to, to also figure out that there’s more than one way to get support, right?

Speaker 2

Because sometimes those peer group supports might be a game. And it might be that they’re getting a bit of relief. They’re having fun together. They’re team bonding, they’re feeling supported in in that way.

Speaker 2

And I think again, because their jobs can be quite stressful and there can be that typical content, it’s just really important for them to know they have space to step away from that during the work week.

Speaker 1

Yeah, and I guess like, for, for maybe some content moderators who are moving between companies, you know, the ramp up period maybe isn’t as challenging for people who are completely new to content moderation and just sort of fell into this kind of trust and safety role, as is pretty typical in the industry, you know, people just kind of fall into it.

Speaker 1

But like, I think one of the biggest pieces that I found was that even that understanding of what mental health looks like, and you know, what is vicarious traumatization, or what is secondary traumatic stress, or even like at the basic level, what’s anxiety, you know, there’s a lot of people I think who could benefit from even just us coming in every so often and saying, well, this is the evidence base behind anxiety,

Speaker 1

this is where it maybe comes from, this is what it looks like in your body and how it feels in your body, allowing them the space to just learn from us and then also like you’re saying learn from their peers and people who’ve been in the role a little bit longer, especially during that ramp up period, I think is really important.

Speaker 2

Yeah, super important. And as you said, it’s like, I think when you work in mental health, you, you know, we’re surrounded by we talk about it all the time. But as you said, there’s, there’s still a lot of lack of awareness around what anxiety feels like, or things like vicarious trauma, which is super important to be aware of in interest and safety.

Speaker 2

And I’m sure we’ll touch on that as well. But I think exactly it can be that psycho education for people just so they’re having the awareness of how things might affect them. Because you might even get someone in a one to one session or a check in session, and they think they’re okay.

Speaker 2

But when you start to get into some of the things that they’ve experienced, or some of the signs that they have, you’re thinking, Oh, maybe that could actually be signs of anxiety, or maybe this could be signs of stress.

Speaker 2

And it’s only when they start to maybe talk about these things or hear from other people that they realize that that’s actually what they’re struggling with. And that can be quite validating for people as well to know what they’re experiencing, you know, they’re not alone, and that they don’t have to go through it alone, that there is support for them there to support them through any difficulties they might be having.

Speaker 1

Our approach is holistic, providing services to the organization, the wider trust and safety team, and individual content moderators. From one-to-one digital and in-person therapy to crisis management and group interventions, we ensure every step of the moderator’s career journey is supported.

Speaker 1

But Zevo’s impact stretches beyond individual care. We provide comprehensive organizational solutions, aligning with regulatory demands for compliance assurance, enhancing operational efficiency for performance optimization, and proactively supporting brand integrity.

Speaker 1

We want to ensure that content moderators across diverse industries from social media platforms to streaming services to gaming are flourishing. Discover our solutions today. Dive into our world of proactive wellbeing solutions.

Speaker 1

Visit zevohealth.com or click the link in this podcast description and join us in leading a new era of content moderator wellbeing. I suppose maybe this is now a good time to just even touch on vicarious trauma.

Speaker 1

Because it’s one of the risks that come with being a content moderator and working in these trust and safety roles. So maybe even if you just give an overview of what vicarious trauma is, and also if we’re thinking about the typical journey of a content moderator, like when does vicarious trauma potentially show up?

Speaker 2

Yeah, yeah, and I think it’s a good way to bring us into like the continuation of that journey, right? And I think so. Vicarious trauma, just to say first, is something that you can experience. It’s basically a secondary exposure to trauma.

Speaker 2

So policemen, therapists, fire people, police people, I should say, and like content moderators, you know, they’re people who aren’t necessarily experiencing a traumatic event firsthand. So let’s take something like an earthquake.

Speaker 2

They might not have been there when the earthquake happens. But if you’re looking at a lot of content of an earthquake or a war zone or whatever it might be, you can become traumatized through the secondary impact of that content.

Speaker 2

So even though it hasn’t happened to you, because you’re seeing it over and over again, or because maybe that piece of content is quite graphic and quite shocking, it can have the same impact on you as post-traumatic stress would have on a person who was actually in that situation.

Speaker 2

So because content moderators have exposure to graphic content, they are at higher risk of developing that vicarious trauma. So symptoms like those quite physical symptoms in your body, or, you know, your change in worldview, change how you see the world, having nightmares, having flashbacks, being very hypervigilant.

Speaker 2

So things like that. They’re all signs of vicarious trauma. It’s not a guarantee that you’re going to get that as a content moderator, but you can just be a little bit more at risk, as I mentioned in various roles, like the police or therapy and things like that.

Speaker 2

You can be at a little bit higher risk of that. And so that’s just kind of an overview. And I think, look, to say you can get this at any stage, right, if a new person sees something super graphic, potentially there will be a trauma there.

Speaker 2

They might have those symptoms of vicarious trauma. But I think what we tend to see is the more experienced moderators who have seen quite a lot of content, maybe more likely that those symptoms of vicarious trauma can come up.

Speaker 2

And it might be that they’re not even really aware that that’s what it is. They’re like, oh, I’m having feeling more tense in my body, or I’m having nightmares, or I saw, you know, a few pieces of content at this point, but it kind of solidifies it over time.

Speaker 2

Sometimes that means there can be more likely that they experience that. So I think it’s helpful for everyone to be aware of the signs and symptoms of vicarious trauma. But also for us as clinicians to be looking out for that in sessions, just to make sure we’re not missing it.

Speaker 2

And especially with people who are more tenured, they might say, oh, well, at this stage, I’m not really affected by the content because I’ve seen so much of it, which can happen because we build our resilience to content and things like that.

Speaker 2

But also, it may be that it is affecting them and they’re just not picking up on some of those those signs and symptoms that might be there.

Speaker 1

Yeah. And I think like one of the big pieces when I think about vicarious trauma is that, you know, it could be anything at any stage that triggers some sort of response. And particularly in the world of trust and safety, things change so quickly.

Speaker 1

Right. So we know, like recently, it’s like Israel Hamas, which is the kind of biggest, you know, stressor in a lot of the companies that we’re supporting. Or it was like the Ukraine-Russia war. Or, you know, a few years ago with like the New Zealand shooting that would have impacted people quite a lot.

Speaker 1

Right. So because the the world changes so quickly, and these events occur so quickly, there can be that element of shock when all of a sudden there’s this flood of content coming into the workflows.

Speaker 1

Like content moderators are required to just all of a sudden try and take down as much content as possible that could be harming the users. And then it could be that trigger that goes, okay, this is now all of a sudden I’m starting to have flashbacks and nightmares.

Speaker 1

And then maybe it’s recalling something from like two years ago when I first started as a content moderator, which didn’t. Yeah.

Speaker 2

me that. Yes, yeah, exactly. Yeah, exactly. And as you said, when we get those huge changes like the kind of the war in Gaza, it’s, you know, they’re seeing a lot of the same content or similar images or similar videos.

Speaker 2

And again, that’s probably more likely than to cause something like vicarious trauma because you’re being re exposed over and over again. And so exactly, it can happen at any point, it can depend on your own past situation, it can depend on content you’ve seen before, it can depend on how resilient you are in that moment, if you’re if your mental health is a bit lower, if you’re struggling a little bit,

Speaker 2

that can can be a risk factor as well. So yeah, it’s something that we really do need to be aware of. And I think something that can happen at any stage, but I would definitely be on the lookout for it with people who have been there longer too, because you know, obviously, the more exposure you have, potentially, the more likely you are to develop something like that.

Speaker 1

Yeah, yeah. And so if we if we’re looking at sort of like more tenured employees or maybe they’re not even tenured yet, like, you know, there’s various definitions of what’s considered a tenured content moderator within different companies, right?

Speaker 1

But if we’re looking at people who are maybe past that sort of six month point, they’re maybe coming into like a year, a year and a half into the role. Are there particular challenges that you think may sort of show up at that stage before they’re kind of maybe three or four years into a role?

Speaker 2

Yeah, like I mean, again, there are positives there in that people are probably a bit more used to the content, they know the policies, they can be a bit quicker, they can support other people, things like that.

Speaker 2

But definitely things for us to be looking out for within in that stage is like a little bit of the the desensitization, which is like, you know, not really feeling anything towards the content. And that can sometimes be a bit of, you know, something for us to be mindful of, of course, you’re going to naturally have less of a response to content, because you are getting used to it, you’re building your resilience.

Speaker 2

But I think there’s a difference between that, and then maybe feeling completely numb to content. And that we just want to be aware and check in there, what’s happening is that that maybe we are actually effective and we’re kind of effective, and we’re kind of turning off our emotional response as a coping mechanism, or is it that that resilience is building.

Speaker 2

So I think that’s one thing for us to be mindful of, because that can also cause things like vicarious trauma, if we’re not dealing with the emotions, if we’re not processing the content that we’re looking at.

Speaker 2

But be also the other thing can sometimes be again, that change in worldview. So if I’m working, let’s say, very much in in child related content, which we know, for a lot of people is very difficult, or even animal animal harm for a lot of people can be difficult.

Speaker 2

And I might become more scared than around children or animals, or that something bad is going to happen to them. So it’s just being mindful of all the things like that, the longer you’re in a job, especially if you haven’t moved around, maybe if you’re in the same area, if you’ve been working in the same area for a long time, just being mindful of how that might be impacting you.

Speaker 2

And it won’t impact everyone, like if you’ve got good coping mechanisms, if you’ve got good support, and, you know, often people are okay, and they can cope well, but it’s just to be aware of some of those things that can affect you, the further along you are in that journey as well.

Speaker 1

Yeah, and I think you make a really important point there. It’s that, you know, not every content moderator is going to be severely impacted by the job that they’re doing, even if they decide to leave at some point, right?

Speaker 1

Like there are various individual factors that determine whether or not someone is potentially gonna be impacted or there’s various like life events that could happen. If I am a content moderator and I’ve just gone through like a particularly difficult relationship breakup, then I’m potentially more vulnerable.

Speaker 1

And so like, I guess in the world of mental health, we call it like protective and risk factors. So everybody has certain protective factors, everybody has certain risk factors. And the ideal situation is that your protective factors outweigh your risk factors, but that imbalance can come at any point.

Speaker 2

Yeah.

Speaker 1

Exactly.

Speaker 2

Yeah, and I think it’s really important for them to be aware if they’re going through a difficult stage personally, that’s also really important for them to know they can reach out for support, right?

Speaker 2

Because yes, we want to support them specifically with the job, but we also just want to generally support their mental health so that they’re more resilient to do this job, right? And I think that’s really important for them to know at any stage during their journey or their career, I suppose, as a content moderator that we are there to support them and that it’s so important for them to have mental health and wellbeing support so that they can do their job and that we can minimise the likelihood of this job negatively impacting them.

Speaker 1

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And so then I guess like towards the maybe tenured employees or more tenured content moderators, things like, like you mentioned already, like potentially becoming desensitized to the content can be challenging and vicarious trauma can kind of show up at any time.

Speaker 1

But one thing I always think of is also like career progression, you know, for, for a lot of people who come into trust and safety and come in as like a content moderator, they don’t necessarily think of it as a career.

Speaker 1

But it is, there is a career path that goes with like entering the world of trust and safety. And there’s, there have been a lot of conversations that I’ve had with content moderators where they want to become like a coach or a quality analyst or move into the LND team or even become like a team leader, or an ops manager.

Speaker 1

So at what stage do you maybe start seeing people think about it as a career and think about kind of progressing forward?

Speaker 2

Yeah, I think it’s a really good point because, you know, when they were in the job, let’s say a year, a year and a half, two years, they have a lot of expertise, right? They really have been, as you scald earlier, on the front line.

Speaker 2

And it’s like, for me, example, you know, when you work as a clinician, and then you move into more of a lead role, it’s so helpful to have that front line experience and have the experience working content, because you can really understand what that’s like.

Speaker 2

And you can really understand how it might affect people and the policies and all of those things. So I think it depends, obviously, look, person to person, everyone’s different. Some people maybe after six months are thinking, right, I want to move up.

Speaker 2

And that’s their kind of motivation there. But I think for most people, it’s definitely more the year and a half, two years, we see the people go and maybe for more team lead roles or moving into maybe slightly different departments.

Speaker 2

That’s still trust and safety, but maybe they have an interest in training, as you mentioned there, or maybe they have an interest in different areas. So I think, again, it can be really helpful for us and for the companies to support them to know that, as you said, this is a career it’s worth investing in, and that there are avenues for them to maybe make a change or move into different departments or move upward,

Speaker 2

and to really know that they’re valued and that their experience and their expertise is valued. And even for us, from the wellbeing perspective, that to have that input from them and what they need for their wellbeing or what they think is important for their journey as a content moderator.

Speaker 2

But definitely I think around that year and a half, two year mark, we see more people wanting to potentially move into more senior roles and progress that career as well.

Speaker 1

Yeah, yeah and I wonder like even for our audience like who maybe isn’t really aware like are there different supports that a team lead would need or someone who works in policy versus someone who’s a content moderator.

Speaker 2

Yeah, yeah, and for sure, I think again, we we would hope to cater to that, right? So we would have specific support for managers, let’s say, because they might have to do a lot of if we go back to performance reviews, because performance is is monitored in these roles, because it has to be every manager in every job obviously has to look at performance, but probably in trust and safety, it’s a little bit more.

Speaker 2

And that can be stressful, too. If you have 20 or 30 people who you have to look at performance, you have to feedback, you maybe have to have difficult conversations, you have to support them to maybe improve their numbers, like that’s that can be difficult and a little bit stressful for people.

Speaker 2

So for sure, we it’s important to have support for manager groups or for whatever their specific role is in trust and safety. We do focus on content moderators a lot because they are looking at content, but yeah, all their roles can still have stressors from working in this this industry.

Speaker 2

And it’s really important for them to have their their well being supported as well. And for us as mental health professionals to support the things that might come up for them and that they might need to be able to support themselves and their teams as well.

Speaker 2

Yeah.

Speaker 1

Yeah. So I guess like, you know, the last stage of any kind of career journey is sort of leaving an organization or leaving a company. So, you know, it’s one of those pieces that I think people either leave trust and safety because they’ve managed to find another opportunity that they think is going to suit them better or, you know, because a lot of these content moderators maybe come from different countries.

Speaker 1

They’re maybe doing like school on the side and they found another career path for themselves. But in terms of even just that off-boarding process and for any of those leavers who are exiting the trust and safety industry, what kind of supports do you feel should be in place for them?

Speaker 2

Yeah, it’s a really, it’s a really good question. And I think as you said, there’s lots of different reasons why people leave some people still are working in trust and safety, and they might just be moving into another role.

Speaker 2

For some people, they found a different career, it very much depends on the situation. But what we’re seeing more of now, which I think is super helpful is companies offering post employment care. So even if they’re leaving, let’s say a company, they offer them six months where they can still access one to one support with a clinician, just so that they can, I suppose, get support for any lingering difficulties,

Speaker 2

maybe if there have been signs of vicarious trauma, to close off a piece of work maybe that they’ve been doing, you know, depending on the reason that they’ve left, it might be to help them to manage anxiety or stress around a new career or leaving this career behind.

Speaker 2

So I think, particularly for this role, an option to have continued care for a number of months after they’ve left the company is really helpful and can really support their well being moving forward, whether that’s to a different trust and safety role, or whether that’s out of trust and safety altogether.

Speaker 2

I mean, people change roles all the time. But I think just given that there can be more difficulties, especially working as a content moderator, I think having that continuation of care to a certain point is really helpful for their mental health and well being and just making sure that they’re looked after really.

Speaker 1

And I think, you know, that that’s sort of our perspective on things that it would kind of be best practice to make sure that anyone who’s leaving the organization continues to still have access, because like you’re saying there could be lingering effects.

Speaker 1

But also that, like, there’s there’s things like delayed onset of symptoms, right? It might not just be lingering feelings. It might be that it’s only kind of four or five months after they’ve left the role that they realize that they’re actually being impacted by something that they saw when they were in the room.

Speaker 2

Yeah, and that’s a really good point because we often even notice if people, as you mentioned, a lot of people can be from different places and sometimes they might take three or four weeks off to go home and it’s only when they’re not in the work environment that they notice some of those signs and symptoms.

Speaker 2

Because I think when you’re switched on, when you’re in that maybe fight or flight response, when you’re working hard, when you’re just sat at your desk getting through your content, sometimes you don’t actually realize that you’re maybe being affected by things.

Speaker 2

It can be when you take a breather, take a break that you start to realize, oh, maybe I’m actually having some symptoms of anxiety or having some nightmares or noticing those things. Again, this doesn’t happen to everyone, but I think the fact that if you have that post-employment care when they’ve had a chance to maybe come out of the role, if that’s what they’re doing, we can then see if any of those signs and symptoms are coming up for them and help to support them with it as well.

Speaker 1

Yeah, maybe more of a personal opinion that I’m asking of you, but do you think all companies should be offering post-employment care?

Speaker 2

I mean yes I’m a psychologist you know a clinician yes I think it’s an excellent thing to to do and I think yes yes would be my short answer to that yes

Speaker 1

No, fair enough. Look, I know that there’s always like things like budget to consider and also like a lot of these companies are employing thousands of content moderators. So if you’ve a lot of turnover within a company, that’s a lot of people that you’re offering support to, which I can totally understand that there’s red tape and bureaucratic pieces that go around with that.

Speaker 1

But I yeah, I just always think, you know, it’s it’s worth us considering what’s best practice and seeing what’s reasonable around like finances or what’s reasonable around like operational processes that can make that happen for people in in the best way possible without trying to kind of force anyone to attend anything or force anyone into anything that they don’t want to do.

Speaker 2

Yeah and that’s it and that’s the other thing to say like all of this is is optional right in the sense that we have a lot of support we have one-to-ones we have peer group support we have trainings and of course we try to encourage people to attend as much as we can because we know that they’re going to be helpful but at the end of the day we also want people there because they want to be there or they feel it’s going to be helpful for them and that’s the same with post employment care not everybody is going to use it but even if we catch a few people who need it I think that’s that’s really great and just to have the option there and I think is is essential for people yeah.

Speaker 1

Yeah, amazing. Well, I suppose that finishes off the journey of a typical content moderator. Maybe just on a final note, I might ask you if there are any content moderators kind of listening in, are there any tips that you could provide them on how to sort of navigate their journey?

Speaker 2

Yeah, yeah, I think look, obviously they like I think okay, a few things that I would say is don’t be afraid to ask for help and support if you need it, whether that is from your well being team or from your own team arrange you like there’s going to be people that you’re working with who have expertise who have been through the things that you’ve been through, who have ways that they cope that might be helpful for you as well.

Speaker 2

So they are great supporters if you can get that support for your team, but but don’t be afraid to reach out to us as well being specialists, even if you’re not really sure what we do. If you’re not really sure what the sessions entail, you can always come along and just find out and see if it’s going to be helpful for you.

Speaker 2

I think that’s one thing. I think the second thing is just have that kind of compassion for yourself that sometimes this can be difficult, right? If you’re looking at graphic content, that is not easy.

Speaker 2

So just have that compassion for yourself that it can be hard and take the time that you need to deal with the content that’s coming up and deal with the feelings or maybe the symptoms, the bodily symptoms you might be having, give yourself a chance to deal with that.

Speaker 2

And yeah, just look after yourself in this role, you know, rely on people, have that support network for yourself and switch off for sure. I think, you know, you’re on all the time during this role, so making sure you have time.

Speaker 2

To switch off afterwards is super, super important. Yeah, that’s kind of what I would say, I think.

Speaker 1

Amazing. And I think even just to add on a final note from that switching off point, you know, content moderators spend all day staring at their computers looking at internet content. So if switching off means that you don’t look at your phone for an hour after you finished work, so that you have that little bit of breathing space away from whatever’s on the internet or whatever is online, like going for a walkout in nature,

Speaker 1

you know, if the weather is poor, like going to the gym, whatever it is, even just like sitting and doing like a mindfulness meditation or like reading a book, you know, like writing in a journal, things like that, like anything to kind of take you away from a screen, I think is a nice way to kind of end your day so that you don’t feel like you’re just connecting from work straight into like another kind of screen that’s

Speaker 2

home. Exactly. And I think I can say and cliche those things like, you know, walk in nature and journal, but there’s the things that actually really do help. And as you said, it’s that piece of taking time away from the content and doing things outside of that to look after yourself will actually make it easier for you to manage when you’re in the content, when you’re in work and you’re having to do that.

Speaker 2

So yeah, definitely switching off by doing other things is really important.

Speaker 1

Amazing. Well, listen, Shauna, thank you so much for joining me as a guest today. It was a great conversation. I’m sure there’s going to be loads of people who get loads out of it.

Speaker 2

Thanks, Michelle. It’s been a pleasure.

Speaker 1

Great. To anyone listening, thank you very much for joining Zevo Talks today, and keep an eye on our socials for the next episode. Thank you very much.